Recent Polls Suggest Growing Opposition to Issue 2

Polls from Quinnipiac University and Public Policy Polling suggest that an already strong opposition to Issue 2 is growing as the election approaches

Two recent opinion polls suggest that Ohio voters are poised to reject , Gov. John Kasich's plan to reduce the collective bargaining power of the state's public sector unions.

The majority of voters polled earlier this month by Public Policy Polling and Quinnipiac University say they want to repeal Senate Bill 5. Public Policy Polling found that 56 percent of voters surveyed want to reject it while 36 percent support Issue 2.

Quinnipiac's poll results were even better for Issue 2 opponents, with 57 percent against the measure and 32 percent for it.

In both polls, more Repubicans said they support Issue 2 than any other groups. But that support is lukewarm compared to the opposition of Democrats, who are staunch against it.

More than three-quarters -- 77 percent -- of Democrats polled by Quinnipiac said they were against Issue 2 while only 13 percent supported. The Public Policy Poll says 80 percent of Democrats polled oppose the issue while 13 percent support it.

In both polls, opposition has grown since polls were . While support for Issue 2 had lagged behind the opposition, the lead was not so large as it is now, the polling groups found.

"With two weeks until Election Day, the opponents of SB 5 have strong reason to be optimistic," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "The opponents had seen their 24-point margin in July close over the summer and early autumn. As we enter the home stretch, however, they have once again taken a commanding lead. Except for Republicans, just about every demographic group favors repealing the law."

The numbers also aren't good for Kasich himself. Public Policy Polling, an outfit based in North Carolina, said that the governor's approval rating is at 37 percent. His approval rating from Quinnipiac is 36 percent.

Public Policy says Ohio's governor "continues to be the most unpopular Governor PPP has polled on anywhere in the country in 2011."

The race is being closely watched by national politicos. Analysts for MSNBC say that the Issue 2 race is "the most meaningful contest" in 2011.

"It will gauge Kasich’s popularity (or unpopularity)," the analysts, including Chuck Todd, write. "It will serve as a trial run of sorts for next year’s presidential contest in this traditional battleground state. And it’s the same fight we’ve seen across the country -- about how governments balance their budgets and about the role of the government worker."

About the Quinnipiac Poll: From October 17 - 23, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,668 registered voters with a margin of error of +/- 2.4 percentage points. Live interviewers call land lines and cell phones.

The Quinnipiac University Poll, directed by Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D., conducts public opinion surveys in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Ohio, Virginia and the nation as a public service and for research.

About the Public Policy Polling Poll: PPP surveyed 581 Ohio voters from October 13th to 16th. The margin of error for the survey is +/-4.1%. This poll was not paid for or authorized by any campaign or political organization. PPP surveys are conducted through automated telephone interviews.

Beatrice Thompson November 06, 2011 at 04:42 PM
Here is one link that I have found, http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/11/ready_for_tuesdays_election_he.html#incart_hbx
Harry H. November 06, 2011 at 06:42 PM
And You can't group all public employees in one group as lazy overpaid people hell bent on draining the poor private sector of their hard earned dollars. The rich (Koch brothers) funded and started this movement to break unions, destroy public education, de-regulate enivironmental laws etc. Yes, not all rich are evil. But they drew first blood against hard working people who only want to make decent salaries and have a retirement someday. And yes, coporations are pitting states against each other to see who can give the biggest tax breaks. But what happens once all the states are requiring no taxes of business? Maybe we can start paying them to move here? Where does it end? Maybe we should be pushing for legislation to fix that problem! We have all heard how bad the private sector has it and they are 7% unionized. Once we rush the public sector, 35% unionized, then we will be poised to compete globally with countries lke China. Soon we will have no unions or any other organization to represent labor and we can have our own slave labor right here in America. Then eliminate the EPA complete the transfermation. But answer this, how can the economy pick up if the consumers have no money to spend? When all the money is in the hands of a few. So keep coddling the rich, why should they pay a little more to provide teachers, police, and firefighters a decent salary and retirement when they don't even do it for their own employees? And on goes the greed!
william November 06, 2011 at 06:53 PM
cynthea, wisconsin unemployment rate march 2011 was 7.4 %. march 11 2011 gov walker signs collective barg law. october 2011 unemployment rate 7.8 %. wisconsin unemployment rate going up as the national avg is going down. once again facts do not back up your statements
Jake Racketch November 06, 2011 at 07:23 PM
Why watch football today when I can come here for entertainment? "One is not like the other"? I'm sorry, Cynthea. I guess I should apologize for assuming that this: "Hey dreameagle, how about learning the Patch policy of only writing as your real name? First and last names so you have to take responsibility for your words. Until you act like a person, we don't really have to give any credence to anything you post." ...cannot be applied to someone like TS, who also ignores the Patch policy by using initials. You're right, I must be the one who's crazy! This is the first time I've actually laughed when typing here on Patch. You are hilariously delusional. Seriously though, if you even read my posts, you'll remember my post about indoctrination indeed being a concern and how vehemently against it I am. But I guess you like to make slanderous assumptions of someone you do not know and claim I am guilty of things that I've condemned. You can find them only a few clicks away. Also, you criticize my "previous contempt for parents." What in God's name are you talking about? Again--you apparently need to go back and read my posts. I suppose by now I should give up hoping that you do. Guess that means I can stop reading your lunacy as well because all it results in is you putting words in my mouth. And I'm the one you pray is no where near children? That's neat.
Jake Racketch November 06, 2011 at 07:27 PM
Careful William. When Cynthea is faced with facts (or even opinions, for that matter!), she likes to distort your words. I'm anxious to see how she manages to counter this one since the Browns aren't holding my attentions so much today.
Donald R. Thompson November 06, 2011 at 09:22 PM
Cynthea is a kool aid drinking Republican so she will likely blame Obama for the higher unemployment rate in WI post anti worker bill
Patricia Panitz November 06, 2011 at 10:19 PM
"In the socialist country of China, 10 million people live in caves." Where did you hear this from? Can you document it? In the good old USA there are long term unemployed living under bridges. What's the difference, caves or bridges? Many unemployed have exhausted their benefits and are destitute (unlike socialist countries where you get unemployment as long as you need it). There are 24 million unemployed or underemployed people in this country and all of them are "slothful and lazy"??? (By the way, I was employed my whole life until I retired). Since 1980 productivity has quadrupled while incomes of the rich have tripled/quadrupled and middle/lower incomes have stagnated or declined. Who is doing the stealing here? Who is being greedy? I'll bet you don't object to out of state right wing billionaires like the Kochs dumping millions into the state on behalf of Issue 2.
Patricia Panitz November 06, 2011 at 10:36 PM
"How anyone thinks that its OK to take something that's not earned and just give it to someone else just to be fair is beyond me." Since 1980 productivity has quadrupled in this country while the incomes of the rich have tripled/quadrupled and middle/lower incomes have stagnated or declined. All productivity gains have gone to the rich. You think this is right? If this isn't redistribution, I don't know what is. As I've stated before, conservatives only object to redistribution when it goes from the rich to non-rich, not the other way around. How do you get money from the non-rich? They do have some assets. I've just explained how their wages were stolen by the rich over the past 30 years. Their pensions were stolen also. Nowadays everyone's on 401ks which means most people will be poor when they retire. Having stolen our wages and pensions now the rich want to go after our Social Security and Medicare. As long as you have any kind of asset the rich will want it. The top 1% owns 40% of the nation's wealth, but of course that's not enough. Most rich people don't "work hard"; they inherit their money. People who have a lot of money and don't work are freeloaders living off other people's labor.
Todd Fisher November 07, 2011 at 12:02 AM
Judging how the Republican Party bosses are reacting right now (i.e.Eat their own, implode), Issue 2 is going down into defeat. http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/11/as_elections_near_intraparty_f.html
Cynthea Sabolich November 07, 2011 at 10:53 AM
As to the charge that Wisconsin in not recovering, their unemployment rate was 9.1 in January of 2010 but is down to 7.8. You can look at the small flucuations but the over all trend is health. If you really want to see the impact of the changes in Wisconsin law, then consider that part of their law allowed the public employee to dictate where the health care insurance was purchased. Naturally, the Teachers Union set up an insurance and it was the provider of choice. Just forcing them to compete (yes, Patricia, compete in a fair market place works) brought one single school district from minus $400,000 to positive $1.5 million. Think about that. Just by one change, the community, the teachers, and the students benefited. But the unions don't want that kind of change in Ohio because they want koolaid drinkers like Patricia to come and tell us about the utopia that exists in China. But oh wait, until Nixon went to China and encouraged them to trade, all the Chinese where poverty stricken. hmmm. In the words of Scott Walker - The law works. Show me one country where Marxism, Socialim, Communism worked. In the USA, we have innovation, creativity, ideas. Steve Jobs, if raised in Syria, might have become a rich man, but he could never have been what he was, or created what he did.
Cynthea Sabolich November 07, 2011 at 10:59 AM
Todd, judging by how well the last set of democrat control Cuyahoga county officials did, all I can say is that the press makes much ado about nothing while the FBI was making alot out of the decades of corruption and greed. Or are you thinking that these two things are anywhere near each other? Koolaid drinker? No. The sad, deluded people of Jonestown were brainwashed into lining up and drinking the koolaid and it killed them. I prefer hot tea, thank you.
Todd Fisher November 07, 2011 at 01:09 PM
The people of Ohio are experiencing "2010 buyer's remorse". Thank you Governor Kasich for campaigning so hard on Issue 2.
kwabena de la warre sankofa November 07, 2011 at 05:00 PM
but my name is dreameagle, as whispered in my ear by my red grandfathers; sorry i cannot abide by your myopic and inconsiderate disrespect and assume some name you are more comfortable with, but as a t-shirt once said, my heroes have always killed cowboys... wonder what the tea-party'ers will make of that...
Cynthea Sabolich November 07, 2011 at 05:34 PM
It gives me great pleasure that people who hide their identities while saying morally repulsive things look to see "what the tea-party'ers will make of that...". Just like when the Occupiers first appeared, everyone wanted to know "what the tea-party'ers will make of that..." We thought it was just great that everyone was wondering what we thought. We seriously don't care about you. We do care about our schools laying off teachers because we have to give 6% raises and step increases to those with the highest pay, or our police departments losing the youngest and strongest while keeping too many at the top, or the $8 billion of debt that Ohio must balance (which would be like winning the $100 million lottery 80 times!). We care about Voting Yes on Issue 2, and we care about holding both parties feet to the fire to get it right, no matter the outcome of Tuesday. Win or lose, we care about standing with the normal citizens who don't "kill cowboys" or anyone. I think I got your goat dreameagle because I don't see anywhere there is anyone looking for your position, locally, state wide, or nationally. But they are all breathlessly wanting to what the tea-party'ers will make of that... heheheh
Patricia Panitz November 07, 2011 at 07:36 PM
There are lots of examples of successful socialist states. Most of western Europe comes to mind - countries like Germany, Switzerland, France, Scandinavian countries, England, Italy, Spain. These countries are in financial trouble now because, like us, they deregulated and allowed their banksters and financiers to loot the economy and wreak havoc. I wouldn't exactly call crapitalism a roaring success. Look at where we are right now. Milliions of poor and extremely poor, increasing every day. High unemployment and foreclosure rates. Boom/bust cycles. A small number of obscenly wealthy people while the vast majority of the population scrapes by. Staggering wealth inequalities. So much for "innovation, creativity and ideas". Conservatives always focus on the wealthy elite because that's all they care about.
T.S. November 07, 2011 at 08:02 PM
So just decided to come back to see what other comments have been made, wasn't real surprised how off-target this got with name calling, comments to individuals vs. the issue, promoting socialism, etc... so how about some real ideas. Since such a large % of govt budgets go to either services or payroll, what do Pro No Issue 2 voters have as an alternative solution to the problem? Is there any real, legitimate reason NOT to come to the conclusion that if issue 2 fails, state and local govt's will have to lay off workers and/or raise taxes? Issue 2 is rather specific, is there anything specific (save the hyperbole) the No 2 voters have as an alternative? There's no question that the money isn't there and we're many billions of dollars in debt with unemployment not moving, my question is. 1. Where's the money going to come from? 2. What would you cut if you were governor? The state doesn't have the money, we don't have the existing tax base, so aren't we going to lose public sector workers anyway if Issue 2 fails? What's going to prevent layoffs, which will reduce the response times, # teachers in classrooms, etc.. which is exactly what Pro No 2 advocates say they're trying to prevent, so how will a NO vote prevent this from happening and what's the alternative? -More Casinos? -Cut road repairs? -Make bad guys and fires illegal in Ohio? -Legalize & Tax Pot? -Have a bake sale -Ponzi scheme targeting Pittsburgh Stealer fans Seriously though, what would YOU do?
Donald R. Thompson November 07, 2011 at 09:09 PM
In every jurisdiction the situations are unique and can be handled in the fashion necessary to balance the books in that jurisdiction. They certianly could have pared the bill to the necessary dollar saving items and dealt specifically with problems like Tenure in teaching or merit pay for teachers. 8% pension minimum with a maximum of 12% still leaving room to negotiate on the contribution rate. Healthcare 13% minimum with a maximum of 22% leaving room to negotiate the % of contribution within the range. For safety forces make the absolute forced retire age 57 for all safety force members no mattter their position statewide. Remove Tenure for the teaching profession, that does not occur for other public employees so get rid of it, it does give senior teachers far too much control. Also make teachers retire at 62 no matter what. Good , bad , or indifferent...time to go!! Make striking illegal...FINE with me!! But KEEP BINDING ARBITRATION within the confines of the above ideas. Allow police and fire supervisors to remain in bargaining units. The decert petition should be 51% for a decert vote to get rid of the union. Allow overtime for safety forces to remain as the current contracts are unique to each jurisdiction, FLSA rules for safety forces are foolish.
Richard Knob November 07, 2011 at 10:04 PM
"I think I got your goat dreameagle because I don't see anywhere there is anyone looking for your position, locally, state wide, or nationally. But they are all breathlessly wanting to what the tea-party'ers will make of that... heheheh" We are interested in what you think because you are almost unbelievable. It's almost like why people like to watch monkey fling poo at the zoo, not because the monkeys are smart or doing anything notable - but because it gross and funny. Keep up the good fight you silly monkey p.s why no signs in your yard?
william November 07, 2011 at 10:11 PM
The state budget is now 6 billion not the 8 billion the Gov was saying. without doing anything 2 billion was slashed off the budget. The gov underestimated the economy in his budget.
william November 07, 2011 at 10:16 PM
Idea: Reduce the state sales tax from 5.5 percent to 4.0 percent and repeal all 54 exemptions in the law. The only loophole that would remain would be for sales tax-free groceries, an exemption that the Ohio Supreme Court has upheld. This would slash 3.1 billion from the budget deficit. (
william November 07, 2011 at 10:19 PM
About 50 more ideas were discussed to help reduce the budget but were not done by the gov.
Sandy November 08, 2011 at 01:54 AM
I am not against unions, but I do think that all bargaining between the govt and unions should be open for all of us to witness. Many years ago the police union and city of New Orleans were unable to come to an agreement, a tv station very carefully investigated what was going on, asked the right questions and to the surprise of the police themselves, were being hoodwinked by their own union reps. They ended their strike and I guess got some other persons to represent them in their union. We need sunshine laws for these bargainings.
kwabena de la warre sankofa November 08, 2011 at 02:03 AM
gee, Cynthia, i didn't know it was required to have a Western European name to leave comments here; i'm hardly hiding...in fact, i'll wager i was long before you; just to give you a clue, in my younger time we called tea-party-ers John Birch'ers; the difference is, the tea-party-ers are more educated and so more subtle with their code words; apparently, not many minorities are confused, are they? there aren't even enough to push forward for photo ops as tokens, are there? i see Kasich didn't care about me, either, on his carefully orchestrated tour of the state...careful, that is, to have avoided any inner city areas or areas around factories that have been closed down, or other dilapidated areas; perhaps you will care about me when i vote Tuesday, with the rest of the poor people and minorities who didn't vote in the mid-term elections and have regretted it every day since; and next fall, perhaps Kasich will care about me when i and the other poor people (in which i include many middle class people now, as well) vote him back into whatever Wall Street hole he crawled out of... maybe he and Walker can keep each other warm under the Koch's back porch...
kwabena de la warre sankofa November 08, 2011 at 02:06 AM
well somebody please enlighten me, because i'm rather thick on this point; what exactly is the crime in rich people paying their fair share of taxes...fair, as in commensurate with their earnings and net worth like the rest of us?
T.S. November 08, 2011 at 02:47 AM
No pun intended, but that's the million dollar question. Is "Fair" defined as percentages? Does fair mean equatable/equal/balanced, not biased by how much a person makes? How much, if any, should those percentages go up the more you make and at what point? Who says its not fair, and who decides what IS fair? Is it fair to have a flat tax where everyone pays 15%, 20%...of their income. Some say its more fair to eliminate the income tax and change it to a national sales tax so that those that don't claim income but receive income who still consume homes, boats, furs, computers, cars, furniture,etc... with a Pre-bate for low income so they end up not having to pay any tax on items they would typically be purchasing at that income level is "fair" so those that don't pay taxes (whether you shelter it, get it illegally, etc..) still have to pay taxes when they consume goods & services ( with certain exemptions such as groceries, education, etc..) Is it "fair" to tax a rich man 50%, after all, he earned it, he didn't take it from anyone (assuming they're not a criminal) Is it "Fair" that 1% of the population pays 40% of taxes collected? Is it fair that a close friend of mine with three kids paid $700 in fed taxes, but got a $6,000 tax refund? Unfortunately its the entire tax code and entitlement programs that need revamping, but politicians on both sides are too afraid to do so. Get rid of the lobbyist; maybe we'll have real and "fair" tax reform that's fair and smart!.
Patricia Panitz November 08, 2011 at 06:31 AM
We need to raise revenue, not just cut, cut, cut all the time. We are really hurting basic services. I suggest a return to 1990 tax rates on business and the wealthy. Repeatedly cutting their taxes has not resulted in job creation, as we have fewer jobs now than then, and has driven us into an economic hole.
Frank Johns November 08, 2011 at 02:59 PM
So, Issue 2. A lot of good points and a lot of nonsense posted here. Love the comments about how great socialism is. Some people really really need to read more history as well as current events if they think that's a better way. Naive is the word that comes to mind. Uneducated optimist is another. I certainly understand the frustration, the Occupy Wall Street and Tea Party frustrations. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but every time I hear "Tax the rich", all I hear is a bunch of jealous, envious whiners. NOTHING is stopping you from being rich yourself, and that's what's great about this country. You have "Bad" rich just like you have "Bad" non-rich. Both have those that take advantage of the system. So, should we ban unemployment and welfare because there are those who refuse to find work cuz they make more off government programs and can sit at home playing video games all day, financially benefit by having more babies? You don't throw the baby out with the bath water by wanting socialism, or wanting to completely dis-ban unions or entitlements. You need leadership to make real change happen. I voted Obama, but won't this time around. We need a real leader, not one that plays one on TV with a fancy teleprompter. Not one that demonizes an opposing view vs. defending it with facts and insight. Locally, Issue 2 may not pass, but those opposing it better watch out what they wish for.
James Thomas November 08, 2011 at 05:28 PM
Tiffany J, Cynthea is simply exercising her "Donald R. Thompson Right". Ask him why he posts so much and maybe I'll think you don't have an ax to grind.
Frank Johns November 08, 2011 at 07:02 PM
Kinda agree with TS, who decides what's fair? If a Billionaire decides he wants to give a majority of his fortune to charity ( Like Bill Gates) or if they want to start another business, or blow it in Vegas,or if they want to buy an island, who is to say what's fair? It is, after all, HIS money, right? Isn't using percentages the core of trying to be fair? No one pays any more, no one pays any less, so let's make it fair. Is it fair that there are those that take advantage of welfare, foodstamps, WIC, unemployment, etc...do we hurt those that are taking advantage of the system? Well, we might catch & prosecute, but do we punish the people that are doing good with their entitlement when you have a few bad apples? I don't see a problem with not having a cap on SS taxes based on max annual salary, not against preventing rich from collecting social security. I've never been a fan of taxing productivity, and if anyone were to actually study www.fairtax.org, you'd see a truly smarter way to raise revenue for the government. Its not a VAT tax, and it doesn't tax low income. It will better fund Soc.Sec, remove the incentive of shipping jobs overseas, encourage savings & investment, etc... I tried debunking this form of taxation, but every objection I came up with, there's information on this site that proved me wrong. For the life of me I don't understand why politicians don't propose this ( Cain's tax plan is not the same from this) The site explains it quite nicely.
James Thomas November 08, 2011 at 07:37 PM
Apparently Tiffany's ax got ground to nothing.


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