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ian king August 27, 2012 at 04:04 am

Joe, Joe, Joe, - too much Rush on the brain I am afraid.
Despite what the right wing pundits say, nondefense spending on areas like education, foreign aid, food safety, was not the driving force in creating these huge deficits. In fact, such spending, which actually helps people, accounts for only about 15 percent of the federal budget. IT IS A FACT = 15%!!! shocking when the truth is revealed isn't it?! Cutting more here like the 2 Rs want to do is simply a PR front as cuts here will not fill any deficit hole. The reality is that every year starting in 2002 with Bush in office, the budget fell into deficit. In 2009 after 7 years of Bush mismanagement, Obama inherited a $ 1.2 trillion deficit. Under Bush, his tax cuts while spending on 2 war fronts were the drivers that destroyed our economy. Add to that the unforeseen collapse of the housing market and subsequent recession -which further reduced planned tax revenue - in 2008 and there you have it. Obama's stimulus package has added to the deficit in 2009 and in 2010, but this is a temporary package, not like the tax cuts or war spending of the Bush/Cheney era. The damage is too deep to fill with spending cuts alone. Taxes have to go up and the wealthy need to pay their fair share. And with an aging population and always rising health care costs, effective health care reform and increased taxes will have to be accepted by this country to controll massive deficits from the Bush era.

ian king August 27, 2012 at 04:06 am

hi Joe - took much liquid Rush Limbaugh taken today? Try listening to NPR sometime.

MZ August 27, 2012 at 11:28 am

There are no civics classes taught anymore because liberals control the curriculum at public schools. You also can't say the pledge anymore.
Last time I checked, Obama had some big dollar backers in 2008 and raised/spent more than ever before. Much of the money came from Wall Street and from overseas. I am sure you were screaming about that back then. I await your post on how George Soros money and influence is ruining this great country. You can follow up with a post on how it bothers you that Obama is constantly hanging out with 1%ers and begging for money at $50K per plate fundraisers. Nevermind, I'm just an unAmerican idiot.

I.M. Wright August 27, 2012 at 12:18 pm

Before someone like you calls ANYONE a moron, you should probably immediately cease and desist from spewing stupidity like you just did. Mainly the whole "stop driving" rhetoric.
Nothing screams "I don't know what the (expletive) I'm talking about" like repeating something that has been debunked (I've lost count) times now. But, to repeat for those of you in the cheap seats, people not driving ____ days will not crush the oil companies. It's even funnier that people like you think that cutting back on driving will drop gas prices. IT WILL NOT!!! Proof of that is going on right now. The fact of the matter is what has been going on for quite some time is flat-out price fixing &/or price gouging. Last I checked, those were a no-no. But, the person jacking up the price of a pack of water during a hurricane will get busted before oil companies get busted for what they're doing. Then, there's the trading of oil futures publicly. And let's not forget how much big oil (their lobbyists) puts into the pockets of politicians.

ian king August 27, 2012 at 12:48 pm

Hi MZ - isn't George Soros impact considered to be mild compared to the Koch Brothers influence/political manipulation in today's political world? Unfortunately for President Obama, the Koch Brothers, whose combined fortune is over $ 35 billion are actively funding multimillions to keep the Obama Administration from achieving any of its economic stimulus program. That hurts you and me, and truly sounds UnAmerican to me as it diminishes our democracy to a level of corporate/lobbyist power and in no way is populist or as they pretend to be, Libertarian. Yet Tea Party types and Republican Right Wingers love these guys who believe in almost no personal or corporate taxes, bare minimal social services for the needy or elderly, no universal health care, and almost no oversight/regulation of industry, including the oil industry where they make their money. Ironic isn't it, since several nonpartisan groups have identified the Koch Industries as one of the top ten air polluters in the USA today! No wonder they are against any kind of oversight!
Gotta luv the Koch brothers, as anyone who challenges their records on the environment is labeled a "radical" by their PR machine. What would our first "radical" President - Thomas Jefferson - be labeled by these right wing extremists I wonder? But then again, I suppose, the Kochs are just another grassroots citizens movement created in high rise wood paneled offices by a bunch of oil billionaires!

I.M. Wright August 27, 2012 at 12:52 pm

Wow. What a response. What a thought-out and detailed explanation as to where I (might) be wrong (hint: I'm not! But, that's not MY problem).
Was it because you're too lazy or stupid? Or both? I certainly hope using those few minutes of free time of your break at Speedway was worth it, fool. How, go make another pot of coffee.

lyn August 27, 2012 at 01:22 pm

And you would think that a Harvard grad would have known there were not 57 states - as Obama said when he was campaigning for the last election.

lyn August 27, 2012 at 01:34 pm

Check your beloved Huffington Post from June 12:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/lindsey-graham-grover-norquist-anti-tax-pledge_n_1590356.html It talks about how there just might be a Republican trend to break with some of that Norquist pledge. Maybe there are some of those bad Republicans willing to consider other ways to fix the mess we are now in, since things keep getting worse and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. And, quit blaming the Republicans - we all know who was in control of both houses the first 2 years and what got accomplished?

lyn August 27, 2012 at 01:40 pm

Are you also forgetting that Obama extended the 2001/2003 tax changes that expired in 2010? If you hate what Bush did, why then aren't you now directing your anger at Obama since he extended them besides giving us additional tax deductions over his last 3 years _ schedule M ($800) and 2% reduction in SS withholding ($1000 for a $50,000 wage earner).
Almost half the taxpayers pay no federal income tax, yet they live in this country.

ian king August 27, 2012 at 01:58 pm

Hi Jiim - I got a back 40 plot of land I'll sell to you for market price. That is probably the only way in 2012 that you can avoid living a modern way in the USA today. Living off the land seems to be what most Tea Party folks truly want, what with their NO TAX INCREASE, their no social services programs, their no health care reform, and their no regulation/oversight of any industry. ( even though we now have over 300 million citizens to somehow provide and pay for as a country such basic life services like electricity, water sewage, paved roads, garbage collection etc.)
I have a couple college degrees, and I still can't figure out how the Tea Party crazies expect a huge country like ours to function at all without some kind of tax system, affordable health care, and oversight of such toxic industries like oil, gas, coal and nuclear. PLEEASE explain Tea Party types, how this will all work with 300 million today? And lets not go the path of Allan Greenspan who for decades believed as a Libertarian that business/corporations will just regulate themselves for the comman good - even he now admits the disasterous consequences of that kind of thinking.

James Thomas August 27, 2012 at 02:16 pm

I.M.(NOT)Wright and ian king,
do you even listen to yourself? I laugh in your general direction.

Dan Marol August 27, 2012 at 03:17 pm

It seems like the biggest gripe the right wingers have is they can't stand government assistance of any kind. While I hate a person cheating the government just as much as they do, I realize you can't do away with the whole program because of some unethical people. And like was mentioned previously, welfare, food stamps, etc take up a very small portion of the budget, and even if they were gutted completely, would have almost no effect on our deficits.
This reminds me of my Tea Partyish brother-in-law who advocates the anti-government Tea Party rhetoric. However, he came from modest means, and is now a physician. When I asked him how did his family afford medical school, his answer was "federally backed student loans". Ironic.

James Thomas August 27, 2012 at 03:27 pm

I.M.(NOT)Wright,
It's as good a response as you've ever come up with. LOL!!!

ian king August 27, 2012 at 03:31 pm

Hi Dan, Great comment! I think if we would have polled the US Reps and US Senators 20 years ago, you would have found many of them were recipients of some form or government aid - be it a farm bill payment, a tax deduction for business expense, a student loan, a flood or disaster loan, etc. Today, with most of the US Reps and US Senators in the millionaire status, they are completely clueless to how the federal government has helped many rise from poverty or lower middle class to solid economic status today - which would not have been possible without some kind of federal loan. I myself went through undergrad with a Pell grant, student loans, worked 2 jobs during the summer, and was a dorm assistant during the school year - and I graduated cum laude. Without the fed support, I am not sure I could have done it. What we unfortunately have now is a country that is governed by corporate interests via lobbyist power and of course, the recent Supreme Court ruling that seems aimed to destroy free elections in this country without spending millions to get elected. Those in power today probably never had to worry about getting a loan for anything. Like Romney, they just put all their money in overseas banks and don't see anything wrong with that lack of transparency. When the rich govern the rich, democracy is dead - and that is what this election is all about. The choice is very clear and I hope America wakes up soon!

Dan Marol August 27, 2012 at 03:45 pm

I think what it boils down to is that we all want to feel that we alone accomplished what we have, which is part of the human ego thing. However, those who are honest with themselves, realize that they got where they were because of some help of government, whether it was federally backed student loans, Pell grants, government contracts, or even infrastructure spending on a new road or bridge which created an opportunity to open a small business. Both private and public sectors always have helped each other hand in hand, and that is what many Republicans today refuse to accept.

ian king August 27, 2012 at 04:28 pm

Final thoughts: Despite what the right wing media pundits say, nondefense spending on areas like education, disaster aid, environmental regulations, was not the driving force in creating this country's huge deficits. In fact, such federal spending, which actually helps people, accounts for only about 15 percent of the federal budget. Cutting more in these programs is simply a Karl Rovian/Ryan PR gimic, as cuts here will not seriously impact any deficit hole. In 2008, Obama inherited an outstanding $ 1.2 trillion deficit. Bush's tax cuts - while increasing federal spending on 2 war fronts - were the real drivers that wiped out the Clinton surpluses and plunged the economy into massive debt. Add to that the unforeseen collapse of the housing/banking markets and subsequent worldwide recession - and there you have it: economic near collapse in 2008.
To avoid complete economic collapse and to save such industries as the automobile industry, federal stimulus was the only option. Yes, the Obama's stimulus has added to the deficit, but it is a temporary package, meant to be a relief effort to create revenues/jobs and thus increase the tax revenue to help lower the deficit. Taxes have to go up and the wealthy need to pay. With most US Reps and US Senators millionaires - the 1% - achieving any kind of long term solutions to very serious economic problems is like trying to get Romney to release more of his tax returns: it is just probably not going to happen.

MZ August 27, 2012 at 04:44 pm

I.M. - I was referring to the ian king CIVICS classes line where he said "when no CIVICS class is taught hardly anywhere, ..."
So if I am an idiot based on that, then so is ian king. I am fairly certain based on ian's posts that he isn't a "perfect right winger". Your name calling is very persuasive and you have convinced me that I have been on the dark side all these years. Until you told me that I was "real dumb" I thought I was well educated and successful. I know pledge my unending love for Obama and am coming out as a proud Liberal Democrat! I have to run now, off to an OWS protest! Go 99%!

MZ August 27, 2012 at 04:52 pm

You didn't write that post, somebody else wrote it for you.
I'm off to do some carbon trading. I hear there is big money stopping global warming, I'm greedy and I want a piece.

MZ August 27, 2012 at 04:55 pm

Would you agree to a decrease in across the board spending of 5% if there was a 10% increase in taxes on the 1%?

lyn August 27, 2012 at 05:15 pm

There is one word you keep using - LOAN. Loans get repaid.

lyn August 27, 2012 at 05:17 pm

But then again, some people don't feel debts need to be repaid, such as the federal debt. Just keep spending and increase the debt.

lyn August 27, 2012 at 05:47 pm

ian king, FYI:
National Debt: 1/20/1993 - $4,188,092,107,183.60 1/20/1994 - $4,500,676,535,249.79 1/20/1995 - $4,796,537,934,595.60 1/19/1996 - $4,988,397,941,589.45 1/17/1997 - $5,309,774,506,681.99 1/20/1998 - $5,495,525,658,807.45 1/20/1999 - $5,623,807,213,463.02 1/20/2000 - $5,706,174,969,873.86 1/19/2001 - $5,727,776,738,304.64 1/18/2002 - $5,922,321,839,074.39 1/17/2003 - $6,388,587,973,011.41 1/20/2004 - $7,006,834,072,435.49 1/20/2005 - $7,613,215,612,328.37 1/20/2006 - $8,175,743,292,992.87 1/19/2007 - $8,675,085,083,537.48 1/18/2008 - $9,188,640,287,930.39 1/20/2009 - $10,626,877,048,913.08 1/20/2010 - $12,327,380,804,696.82 1/20/2011 - $14,056,313,474,932.58 1/20/2012 - $15,236,271,879,792.78 8/23/2012 - $15,976,519,029,144.14 Clinton - 1/20/1993 to 1/20/2001 Bush - 1/20/2001 to 1/20/2009 Obama - 1/20/2009 to now As per above, in no year did the national debt go down or did Clinton leave Bush with a surplus that Bush turned into a deficit. Clinton did not have any surplus years, as you can see - the debt went up each year. He came close. I'm not defending what Bush did. But look at what Obama has done in less than half the time.

lyn August 27, 2012 at 05:58 pm

National Debt-
+ $1.54 trillion Clinton- 8 years + $4.9 trillion Bush- 8 years + $5.35 trillion Obama -3 years, 7 months

Dan Marol August 27, 2012 at 09:11 pm

Lyn - OK, and? Yes, they are loans. But they are loans that would not happen if the federal government did not back them, as private banks would not take the risk. My point is that it is still the government assisting the private sector.
MZ, I am going to award you 2 points, as I don't know what you are talking about.

Dan Marol August 27, 2012 at 09:16 pm

Lyn-
Looks like you are starting to take a cue from Joe Giles.

lyn August 27, 2012 at 09:24 pm

Explain?

lyn August 27, 2012 at 09:36 pm

Oh, I see above.
Actually, I posted this chart the beginning of August. Guess you missed that one. And the debt is still going up!

Jeff Mittiga August 27, 2012 at 09:52 pm

Romney has spent the last 6 years sucking up to the wealthiest right-wing zealots in America .... in order to obtain campaign financing. If elected, he will follow through in implementing right-wing ideology. Medicare will be turned into a voucher program and the vouchers will not keep up with inflation. There could also be a war coming with Iran. The cost of the war will be added to our national debt. Just like the Iraq war and the Afghan war.

Kaye Spector (Editor) August 27, 2012 at 10:23 pm

hello all. have deleted several comments here because of name calling. thanks.

MZ August 28, 2012 at 01:53 am

Dan, thanks for the points. Ask Al Gore about carbon trading.